Episode 26
Should Catholics Talk So Openly About Sex?
Should Catholics talk openly about sex? I’ve been doing this long enough that I’ve heard some of the same objections come up over and over again. In this episode, I address four of them directly.
1) Some men worry that public conversations cheapen something sacred and private. 2) Others believe solid theology should be enough and that discussions about the practical aspects of sex aren’t needed. 3) Some have a hidden or acknowledged doubt that anything in their marriage can change, so it’s not worth trying. 4) Finally, a surprising number of men assume they have nothing to learn and no need to improve and that their wife is the only one who needs to change.
I share my thoughts on each one of these: We’ll talk about how respectful discretion can coexist with honest conversation, why theology still needs prudential application to live it our in the concrete realities of our lives, where hope comes from when your circumstances feel stuck, and why humility always begins with the man in the mirror. (I’m preaching to myself here too.)
Everything I teach in Holy Desires serves a deeper purpose: helping husbands love their wives, grow in holiness, and cultivate the joyful, connected marriage God designed for them. Enrollment for the Fall 2026 Holy Desires formation is open through Saturday, October 3. Learn more and join us.
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Transcript
As you know, I work with Catholic husbands on helping them cultivate a deeply satisfying mutual love life within their marriage, which means people also need to cultivate a deeply satisfying marriage in general.
Speaker A:But I do focus a lot on physical intimacy, on sexual intimacy between husbands and their wives, and I help husbands with challenges in that area specifically.
Speaker A:Now, when you go publicly in the area of sex, especially from a religious or Catholic perspective, you get some pushback.
Speaker A:And I won't deny that I have gotten a fair share of pushback and people who don't agree with what I'm doing.
Speaker A:And that's fine, we're allowed to disagree.
Speaker A:But I do want to take this opportunity to talk about five different reasons that I come across on a fairly regular basis for why people think that I or anyone shouldn't be talking about sex in a more public way within the Catholic context.
Speaker A:And I want to kind of address what those objections are and what my response might be.
Speaker A:And note, I'm.
Speaker A:I'm going to make these as fair and reasonable as possible.
Speaker A:I'm.
Speaker A:My intent truly is not to set up a bunch of straw men and then knock them down simply.
Speaker A:So let's get started.
Speaker A:What are objections that I hear from men about why they shouldn't need to learn more about sex and sexual intimacy at a practical level with their wives?
Speaker A:Well, the first one is that, again, putting this in the best way possible, they have a proper respect and reverence for sexuality, and they fear that treating it in a common way cheapens it.
Speaker A:Now, I could say a bunch of people are prudes and then explain why being prudish or scrupulous is bad, but I think that there's something really valid here.
Speaker A:There is a proper respect and reverence and discretion needed for these topics.
Speaker A:There is a reason that they are private and personal, and that reason needs to be respected.
Speaker A:And I completely appreciate and understand that.
Speaker A:I try to walk a line between speaking openly about sexual intimacy and these types of topics while still maintaining proper respect for the privacy and the dignity of these acts.
Speaker A:Now, the problem with taking that to the ex, what else call the extreme, taking it all the way to, to the point where we never talk about sexual intimacy and the challenges involved in marriage in the sexual area is that that results in a bunch of men and women, a bunch of couples, married couples, who feel extremely isolated.
Speaker A:It results in a bunch of people who are trying to live out their Catholic vocation to marriage and as well as they can, who are all struggling in similar ways, silently and in isolation from each other.
Speaker A:And this friends is actually one of the more powerful reasons and confirmations that I do what I do.
Speaker A:And my wife Sarah, who helps women in the same area of sexual intimacy with their husbands through her programs.
Speaker A:It's one of the main reasons that she does what she does as well.
Speaker A:It's what we do, what we do in the area of sexual intimacy.
Speaker A:And that is we have heard from so many people, husbands, wives, couples who have felt like a weight has been lifted from their shoulders that they didn't even really realize they were carrying.
Speaker A:When they discovered that the challenges and struggles that they had weren't unique to them, when they discovered that they weren't broken, they weren't failing, when they discovered that other couples were struggling in the same ways.
Speaker A:And when they were connected with those couples or men connected with men, women connected with women in a supporting, supportive, prayerful, faithful, reverent, respectful community to help each other, to help each other live their vocations more joyfully, more lovingly, more passionately.
Speaker A:Yes, that is an incredibly powerful experience.
Speaker A:And what makes it so powerful is, I think, precisely the fact that it is a small community.
Speaker A:It's not open and it's not public.
Speaker A:Yes, we talk about these things on this podcast, for example.
Speaker A:My wife has a podcast.
Speaker A:We put out emails and whatnot, but we talk in a relatively circumspect way.
Speaker A:And these forums inside our programs, we create communities that are small, personal.
Speaker A:Those communities are gated and private, and therefore, that protects the reverence and the dignity and the respect due to the sensitive nature of the topics which we're talking about.
Speaker A:So that's how we try to, you know, thread the needle, so to speak, between being open enough to raise the topics and invite people to understand that they don't have to suffer alone.
Speaker A:You don't have to be in isolation if you have struggles, if you're embarrassed about the struggles that you're dealing with, other men have those struggles, too.
Speaker A:And coming into a community where those things can be acknowledged in front of other men, that other men can see that struggle and not judge, not shame, but just give empathy and love and support and understanding, I have literally seen men brought to tears by the power of that experience.
Speaker A:It is incredible, and it is healing.
Speaker A:And that's the kind of unity and fraternity and brotherhood within holy desires that is so powerful.
Speaker A:So, yes, we do.
Speaker A:I do absolutely want to maintain a respectful discretion about these topics.
Speaker A:But at the same time, I know the power of creating a community of the right men who all have the right hearts, who can support each other in Precisely these very issues and topics.
Speaker A:And it can unlock incredible healing and grace into their own hearts and through their hearts, into the heart of their marriage with their wives.
Speaker A:So that's what I would say to that.
Speaker A:First, objection.
Speaker A:The second thing that I hear is some people, some men think that all you need is the theology.
Speaker A:You know, we understand the Church's teaching about sexuality.
Speaker A:We've read the Catechism, we've read Thomas Aquinas, we've read Saint Alphonsus, we've read Theology of the Body.
Speaker A:And that's what we need.
Speaker A:And that's true.
Speaker A:That is what we need.
Speaker A:I would say that's not all that you need.
Speaker A:The Church does not give us a prescriptive roadmap for our lives in practical ways.
Speaker A:In almost any area of our life.
Speaker A:What the Church gives us are principles and truths and moral boundaries.
Speaker A:But within that is a pretty big area that requires a lot of personal prudence and discernment.
Speaker A:And think of it this way.
Speaker A:There are literally infinite number of ways to be Catholic, and they're all faithfully Catholic.
Speaker A:So this is an analogy, right?
Speaker A:Say, well, all I need is the Catholic faith.
Speaker A:If I've got my Catholic faith, then I know how to live my life.
Speaker A:Well, kind of yes and no.
Speaker A:Imagine two different orders, right?
Speaker A:Some orders of religious are cloistered, and their call is to pray deeply.
Speaker A:And they remove themselves from the world on purpose, intentionally, and.
Speaker A:And devote themselves to deep, deep prayer.
Speaker A:And that is a beautiful, beautiful way to live out the Catholic call to holiness.
Speaker A:There are other orders who are very much engaged in the life of the world.
Speaker A:Think Mother Teresa, right?
Speaker A:She's on the streets of Calcutta helping people.
Speaker A:Other orders are teaching people, building hospitals, schools, serving.
Speaker A:That is another very profound way to live out your Catholic faith.
Speaker A:On the exterior of those two lives, it's hard to think of two things that are more diametrically opposed.
Speaker A:One is completely secluded from the world, and one is very actively engaged in the world.
Speaker A:Very, very different ways of living out the same call to holiness.
Speaker A:The same Catholic faith.
Speaker A:Well, in an analogous way, there are infinite number of ways to live out your faith within your marriage, right?
Speaker A:Marriages have their own specific, unique calls and charisms and gifts and ways of being in the world and manifesting God's grace into the world and being a witness of God's love into the world, depending on where you are and all sorts of different contributing factors.
Speaker A:And it is a gift and.
Speaker A:And a challenge and a privilege to discern God's more specific call for us, you know, and yes, we're called to holiness.
Speaker A:Yes, we're called to the Catholic faith and the truths of the faith, but how we live that out in our specific lives and our specific situations is always an adventure.
Speaker A:And there are no two paths that are exactly the same.
Speaker A:And that's beautiful.
Speaker A:That's the Catholicity, the universality of the Catholic faith.
Speaker A:Right.
Speaker A:We're not all the same.
Speaker A:There is a wide and beautiful diversity within the Catholic Church.
Speaker A:Well, the same is kind of true within your own marriage, how you live out your marriage and even within your sex life.
Speaker A:So the way that you express as a couple your physical intimacy, there's not just one way to do it.
Speaker A:There's.
Speaker A:There's a diversity and a Catholic to this.
Speaker A:Are there moral bounds and guidelines?
Speaker A:Yes, of course there are, just like there is in life in general.
Speaker A:But within that, there's.
Speaker A:There's a lot of different ways of living out a joyful, passionate, mutually satisfying sex life.
Speaker A:And so understanding, like, what even are these possibilities?
Speaker A:And.
Speaker A:And what can we.
Speaker A:What are different things that we can try?
Speaker A:How can we cultivate a connection, a sexual connection, a sex life between myself and my wife?
Speaker A:How does that look?
Speaker A:So said another way, the theology gives us principles, but it is always up to us and our prudence to put those principles into concrete reality within our lives.
Speaker A:So you need a bridge between the reality of life and the principles and the truths that the Church gives us always.
Speaker A:And many, many men and women benefit tremendously from assistance, guidance, and help in understanding how to make those truths concretely real in our own lives.
Speaker A:And this is true in other areas of our life.
Speaker A:As you know, we have spiritual directors.
Speaker A:We seek out help and guidance from others all the time.
Speaker A:We get guidance from our priests in the confessional.
Speaker A:There are countless Catholic content and programs and Catholic radio and lots of lots and lots and lots of resources designed specifically around this question of making our faith that we know and love and hold and believe concretely real in our lives.
Speaker A:And this is one aspect that is tremendously underserved for Catholics.
Speaker A:And so that is a gap that Sarah and I are attempting to fill.
Speaker A:Are we doing it perfectly?
Speaker A:I'm sure we Absolutely not.
Speaker A:100%, No.
Speaker A:But I can tell you that I have seen really beautiful fruits from many, many men that I have worked with.
Speaker A:And Sarah has seen the same with women that she has worked with.
Speaker A:So is theology all you need?
Speaker A:No, always.
Speaker A:Theology requires a bridge or a prudential application of those truths into the concrete reality of your life.
Speaker A:And that's what Holy Desires is designed to help you with in the realm of sexuality.
Speaker A:Here's a third objection.
Speaker A:This one gets a little more personal.
Speaker A:Many men don't fundamentally believe that things can change, and so they don't want to raise the hope and get disappointed.
Speaker A:Again, this one is really sad because the reality is that things can always change.
Speaker A:Things can always get better.
Speaker A:You can always change, and you yourself can always get better.
Speaker A:You are responsible for your own heart and for your own journey of sanctity, which is conforming your heart to the heart of our Lord Jesus Christ.
Speaker A:And the more we can do that as men, the more you can do that as an individual.
Speaker A:And the more I can do that as an individual, the more we will experience the grace and peace of our Lord in our lives, in our souls.
Speaker A:Now, that is a fundamental truth, and we can all bank on it.
Speaker A:There is also another fundamental truth that sits alongside of it, and that is that in the realm of marital sexuality, you are not the only person involved in this.
Speaker A:Obviously, your wife is also involved here.
Speaker A:You cannot control her.
Speaker A:I had a whole episode last week about how you can only control yourself.
Speaker A:You can only change yourself.
Speaker A:You can't change your wife.
Speaker A:That is also a fundamental truth.
Speaker A:Now, here's what I said in that last episode.
Speaker A:When you change yourself, it's like a dance.
Speaker A:And the dance will change the fundamental dynamics of your marriage.
Speaker A:You can impact on your own by changing yourself.
Speaker A:Can I guarantee that your sex life will necessarily improve?
Speaker A:You know, exteriorly, I wish I could, but we both know that that would be spurious.
Speaker A:That'd be.
Speaker A:I can't back that up.
Speaker A:I can promise you that if you engage in any program or any effort, any sincerely undertaken effort to more closely conform your heart with the will of Christ and with the heart of Christ, that you will grow in holiness, that God's grace will help you in that effort to the extent that you are sincerely undertaking it, and that it will bring you to closer communion with God.
Speaker A:And the closer you are in communion with God, the more capacity you have for authentic love, and the more capacity you have for authentic love, the more opportunity you have to radically transform your own marriage from within with that very capacity for love that you can share with your wife.
Speaker A:Those are the dynamics at play, and that are the ones that are real.
Speaker A:So what I would say here, if.
Speaker A:If you have some really heavy struggles in the area of sexuality, like maybe I've.
Speaker A:I've talked with and worked with men who haven't had marital intimacy with their wives for months or years, some who have no reasonable expectation that it's going to resume at any point in the future.
Speaker A:And that is a really.
Speaker A:That's hard.
Speaker A:That's a heavy cross.
Speaker A:Can I guarantee that that cross will be lifted and that intimacy can resume?
Speaker A:I can't guarantee that, of course.
Speaker A:I mean, I could say it, but you wouldn't believe me, and you'd be right not to believe me.
Speaker A:But what I can guarantee is that to the extent that you conform your heart to Christ's heart, the frustration, the very understandable frustration, I would understand bitterness.
Speaker A:I would understand, like, a lot of emotion and a lot of frustration and a lot of disappointment and a lot of, you know, a lot of heavy things that can all be given to our Lord Jesus.
Speaker A:And the more you can conform your heart to his, the more he can replace those negative emotions and experiences with peace and love.
Speaker A:I mean, that's what he did on the cross, right?
Speaker A:He bore a heavier cross than any of us ever will.
Speaker A:And he did not allow bitterness or frustration to define his response to the injustice and the sufferings and the cross that he bore.
Speaker A:He's our model, and so that's what we're called to do as well.
Speaker A:That's a hard message, but it's a message laced with hope on multiple fronts.
Speaker A:The hope is even if your exterior circumstances don't change, your interior ones can, and those interior ones will go.
Speaker A:Those interior circumstances can completely transform your life, your experience of your life.
Speaker A:That's what's under your control, and that's what you can directly change with the help of.
Speaker A:And of God.
Speaker A:And help of.
Speaker A:And grace of God.
Speaker A:And when you do that, you are walking the road.
Speaker A:That gives you the best possible opportunity to also affect a real change in your marriage relationship as well, and give you the best probability of breaking through whatever those challenges are that you're carrying.
Speaker A:So I hope that makes sense.
Speaker A:It's.
Speaker A:It's a bit of a both and.
Speaker A:But yeah, for.
Speaker A:For any men who are listening in to this, who are carrying very heavy, challenging, difficult circumstances, my heart goes out to you, and I'm praying for you.
Speaker A:All right, last one.
Speaker A:This is another.
Speaker A:This.
Speaker A:This one is.
Speaker A:Is a little hard to talk about, but it needs to be talked about.
Speaker A:The last reason why people think that they don't need to talk about practical details around sexual intimacy is that they don't think they need to change.
Speaker A:They think that their spouse or their wife is the one who needs to change.
Speaker A:They think that everything is fine.
Speaker A:And the only thing that that is wrong is that, you know, my wife is.
Speaker A:Is or is not doing something should or should not do something.
Speaker A:My.
Speaker A:Basically it all comes down to my wife needs to change, and I don't.
Speaker A:That is a attitude of pride.
Speaker A:Now, does your wife need to change?
Speaker A:Yeah, sure.
Speaker A:Absolutely.
Speaker A:I mean, if she's a mortal human on this side of heaven, she's got room for improvement.
Speaker A:Guess what?
Speaker A:Same is true of you.
Speaker A:Same is true of me.
Speaker A:I'm a mortal human on this side of heaven, and I have a lot of room for improvement.
Speaker A:So to completely put all of the burden of change, of improvement, of learning, of growing onto your spouse, that.
Speaker A:That's just so.
Speaker A:I'm just going to call it like it is.
Speaker A:It's just an.
Speaker A:It's just pride.
Speaker A:You have to be.
Speaker A:You have to have the humility to understand that you don't have it all figured out.
Speaker A:You.
Speaker A:You're not perfect in this area or any other area of your life.
Speaker A:There are ways that you can learn and grow in this aspect of your marriage and every other aspect of your marriage.
Speaker A:Again, I want to just end with this.
Speaker A:That the focus of what I do in Holy Desires, and I can only speak for my own program and my own intention.
Speaker A:I don't know what other people are trying to do, what I am trying to do in Holy Desires.
Speaker A:Yes, we talk about techniques, we talk about really practical things relating to sex and what is allowed and where the moral boundaries are and where those boundaries are derived and what principles they.
Speaker A:They rest upon.
Speaker A:And, you know, how desire works and, you know, all those, all those kinds of things.
Speaker A:We talk about it.
Speaker A:But at the end of the day, at the end of the day, everything in Holy Desires is oriented towards a deeper, more profound connection with your wife and love for your wife, service for your wife and a living out of your vocation to marriage.
Speaker A:It's really focused on that.
Speaker A:It's not a series of, you know, cheap tricks such as you might find on a checkout magazine in the grocery store.
Speaker A:You know, this is.
Speaker A:That's not what this is.
Speaker A:This is about understanding what expectations I have about sexual intimacy.
Speaker A:Are those expectations grounded in reality of how sexual experience really functions?
Speaker A:Or are they formed by the fantasies that are sold to us by Hollywood, by movies and TV shows?
Speaker A:Newsflash, sexuality as portrayed by Hollywood is not a good baseline for your expectations in your own marriage.
Speaker A:It is a fantasy.
Speaker A:It is literally fiction.
Speaker A:They are literally actors.
Speaker A:They're faking it for your entertainment.
Speaker A:That's what it is.
Speaker A:That's not what we should base our expectations on.
Speaker A:But unfortunately, going back to objection number One so few people actually talk about.
Speaker A:What are the reasonable, real expectations for how sexuality really works in real marriages?
Speaker A:Not in Hollywood marriages and certainly not in porn.
Speaker A:My goodness.
Speaker A:So, you know, we.
Speaker A:We talk a lot about what are these expectations, what you are, what is the reality of how a healthy sexuality between husband and wife really looks like?
Speaker A:And how can I conform my heart to serve and love my wife in such a way as to cultivate not only a sex life, but our marriage in such a way that our love and bond is primary in our relationship with each other and that our sexual intimacy becomes, as the church says, a sign and a pledge of the spiritual communion between husband and wife.
Speaker A:That's beautiful language, but it puts the.
Speaker A:The emotional connection, the love, the bond, the relationship between.
Speaker A:Between husband and wife front and center.
Speaker A:And a great sex life is a fruit of a healthy, loving, joyful marriage.
Speaker A:The marriage and the relationship and the love and the charity and the bond and the connection, all of that comes first.
Speaker A:And then one of the fruits of that strong, joyful, passionate marriage in general is a joyful, passionate sex life.
Speaker A:That's the key to pretty much the whole shebang.
Speaker A: y Desires course for the fall: Speaker A:If any of this sounds like a journey that you would like to be a part of, if you would like to be a part of that community that I talked about where you can pray for and be supported by other men who are faithfully trying to live out the vocation of their marriage as well as they can, if you want to be part of this journey, check it out.
Speaker A: rd,: Speaker A:So join us.
Speaker A:I would be delighted to have you.
Speaker A:God bless.
